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> Look at the history of US-sponsored coups and you'll see military and political leaders seizing power
No, that's dated. The modus operandi in the recent past shifted, to give the coups more of an appearance of legitimacy, from inflating fringe groups through mass presspaganda venues or "self organized" "popular" "movements" to using lawfare to disqualify popular leaders and transfer power to US-aligned forces through seemingly legitimate means and in response to provoked and inflated popular uprising. IIRC it is https://invidious.snopyta.org/watch?v=_wIOqHSsV9c that covers some of those shifts in trends. the scent of foreign meddling is all over these Ukrainian movements. the one-sided media promotion of movements as highly supported (while polls showed the country divided in about half), the "organic" but explosive growth, the "volunteer" efforts, the seemingly coordinated and inflammatory escalation of claims of corruption and human rights violations (that get a blind eye when practiced by allies), this is all textbook and all too familiar now, you'd be surprised if you listened to some scientists rather than to your imaginary and highly-prejudiced depiction thereof. that the latest of a long set of scientists and analysts grudgingly acknowledge US's wrongdoings and I run with it doesn't turn them into someone with a grudge. that ignorant depiction says a lot more about you than about them. 2023-06-01 06:30 —
> Are not the Ukranians entitled to determine their own path?
The US's opinion on this was answered when it replaced a democratic Ukrainian government that defended neutrality with one that was friendly to the US. that was what sparked this proxy war. experts on the matter have predicted how Russia would react, before and after this US move, and the US went ahead with it anyway. you're projecting your wishes to submit them to domination onto me. I wish Ukraine had not been used as bait. I wish it had been allowed to remain neutral and independent. but that was not to be. that was turned into "under US rule", "under Russian rule", or "Ukraine no more", or a combination of the three. that was not cool. you appear to be under the delusion that being a foreign nation under US rule is better than being under Russian rule. that's not at all surprising coming from a USian, but it's delusional nevertheless. sovereign autonomy means *not* being under anyone's dominion, not even the US's 2023-06-01 04:07 —
your delusion is kind of opposite to what US experts on the matter (vs US govt parrots) have been saying. refer to the video I linked to upthread, for one. the US promoted a coup to change Ukraine's course into one that would knowingly provoke the invasion, blocked diplomatic efforts, and kept the war going. if the US cared about Ukraine's national survival, it would have refrained from making it bait for the big bear, and it would have cut the losses sooner. but this is not being done for Ukraine, this is to weaken Russia and Europe, Ukraine be damned. I'm not ok with that. Ukraine national survival is not served by promoting its destruction in a proxy war.
now, of course you as USian are under intense propaganda to delegitimize Russia's concerns and depict Putin as a mad man. the many official press reports that Russia was just about to lose the war Real Soon Now (TM), over the past year, have evidently been proven to be nothing but war propaganda (truth is the first victim); I could tell, and I'm the one who's deluded? that Russia would be worse off, even if it ultimately wins, should be strong indication that it was forced to move, which was clear to me from the beginning. but propaganda attempts to hide the machiavelian plots that force others to act against their best interest by painting them as crazy. do you fall for that? 2023-06-01 03:58 —
it's not like US, UK or even Ukraine care much about what binds them, is it? they've entered agreements without any intent to fulfill them. respect for human rights is relevant or not depending on whether the alleged offense is committed by opponents or allies.
provoking the war, blocking diplomatic moves that could have prevented and then put and end to it, and arming Ukraine so that the war lasts longer and the destruction is more thorough... none of these have been moves that helped Ukraine, I'm sorry to say. Ukraine people are being killed and the country being torn apart as consequence of US's power plays US's own actions and history of meddling with and promoting very ugly dictatorships in its LatAm playground don't make it look any better than Russia, really, except perhaps for those who don't know that history, or wish to pretend being under the rule of their own empire makes it better than being under the rule of others' empires 2023-06-01 01:14 —Na visita de Maduro, Lula joga luz no viralatismo da mídia corporativa brasileira
2023-05-31 00:19 —
wanna get some facts to contrast with the propaganda? maybe try this? there's a lot more that corroborates it, but that's handy and recent and explicitly discusses some of the propaganda points you raised, from someone who appears to be a lot better informed than you and me together
https://invidious.snopyta.org/watch?v=v-rHBRwdql8 2023-05-29 03:55 —
thanks for the link. this is older than the stories I heard about how the Russians mistreated grandma's family in Ukraine after the revolution.
I don't buy the notion that US/NATO is offering anything good. it went to great lengths to drive both Ukraine and Russia to a fight that's good for neither, without any regard for the amount of suffering that this ploy would bring onto the Ukrainian people. it was solid if Machiavelian strategy: it weakened Europe's ties to Russia, isolated Russia from the West, reinforced and exploited Russophobia in several Eastern- and Northern-European countries to bring them onto NATO's laps for subservience to US's interests, and got the US people to pay for the war machine to keep running, offering weaponry and ammo to Ukraine, while Ukraine, after being forced out of neutrality in a treaty that neither Ukraine nor NATO had any intent to comply with, gets bombed to death and broken into pieces. and yet Ukraine is now relying on that who plotted its own destruction because it offers more outlook towards freedom? mafias have treated its "protected" victims no worse than that. 2023-05-29 03:52 — |
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